Mafia 2: Cage Match

He seemed the most suspicious to me. I felt like he didn't explain himself well enough. I honestly thought he was scum. I was wrong. I'll be more careful in the future.

And to TNS, I ask, why didn't you ask about voting or rules, either in the forum or through a private message? Any one of us would happily answer your question and/or direct you to the wiki.

Dang 2 townies dead, that isn't good...
I do agree with Arc, that was weird that Nihil would be killed off, just kind of odd.

I would like to hear more defense on PR's part, just to say "I'm town, I made a mistake, I'm sorry" the innocent man is now dead

To answer Arc's inquiry, I was totally thinking it would have been you, Ghostly, or GM, mainly because you three have been very active, able to analyze situations, and have good reasons for outcomes on posts. Though even if KSS seemed that he was posting scummy things, it is truly sad to find out he was a townie and the tracker as well.

Also TNS... Ummm that... I completely agree with Ghostly... to just saying "Granted I was under the impression that we couldn't change our votes. But since the guy I voted for ended up being one of the posters most people seemed suspicious of I stuck with it." seems rather strange. Why didn't you poke more information from KSS? Why did you not ask if you could change your vote? Why did you keep with that vote or was it too late to change? We definitely would be able to point you in the right direction to where you could find more rulings and we have Hans Gruber to help as well answer questions.

Sorry about that TNS, somehow I did overlook your random vote when making my earlier post. I stand by the statement that none of your posts really said anything though. The statement you just made about thinking we couldn't change our votes is the first real information you've given us, as it indicates you are either lying or paying absolutely no attention to the game. Which either way makes you pretty worthless to the town. Alkeriece is in that same boat of seeming worthless to the town right now, and I want better stuff to go on from both of you.

Ghosty, you are right, that is a possible scenario. However I find it very unlikely. I find it much more believable that the mafia went after a town member that they thought was keeping his head down because he's a power role, and came up disappointed when he flipped vanilla townie.

Arc, like others who have responded I expected the hit to be you, myself, or Ghosty. We have been the most profilic posters in trying to work for the town. Of course there is only so much we can learn on day one anyway, and we really bore little fruit from our questions.

My feelings about PurpleRam and Raptor-Senpai are roughly the same, they are either scum or town who are trying without really having a method to their madness. I'm much more ready to go after TotallyNotSuspicious and Alkeriece, who are either scum or worthless town.

Until people start claiming roles (and results) there isn't much I can do besides talk and vote, much like day one. So right now:
Vote to lynch: TotallyNotSuspicious

Purple, I would like to see a post from you talking about what your reads are on all of the players in the game, who you are most suspicious of, who you think is town, and why. You were acting like quite the scum player there at the end of the day yesterday, and you are on my short list of people I think might need the noose. But for now, a better target may have just appeared.

In response to my own question, I expected them to go after GM, Ghosty is an important town player, but any doctor worth his salt will protect the best player currently alive in the game, if you don't have any other clues who the mafia are going after, if you are protecting town, you'll save the one most likely to get you out of this mess, if you are protecting scum, you most likely won't save them from what will kill them. GM was good enough to warrent a kill last night, but not good enough to be an auto doctor save right now IMO, so he would have been a good target for that.

On the nightkill, currently I'm under the impression that the kill doesn't really give us any solid information, nihil only voted on one person, and that person is now dead, and wasn't active enough to have any posts detailing his reads that we can get further light on now that we know he is town, and IMO it feels like a vig kill, not a scum kill. now of course, I can't ask someone to confirm it if they are the vig, because a vig is a powerful role that we don't want to out to the scum, so I'm currently operating under that assumption.

Of course, with that assumption that means one of three things, 1.There is a doctor in town that protected someone from getting killed last night. 2. There is a roleblocker in this game, or something similar that prevented the mafia from acting last night, this person may hold the clue to who the actual mafia are in this game, if there is one. 3. There are people who are bulletproof in this game, and the mafia hit one of them. The last option is the least useful in terms of giving us information, and I think the least likely, maybe we can make use of these options later in the game, we'll have to see how this plays out.

Now back to my original paragraph after going on a little seqway there in the middle. Currently the one looking most like scum is TNS. If he thought he couldn't change his vote, throwing it out on one of the first few posts in the game when there was no information to go around is not a town play, thats a play of someone who doesn't care who he kills, and I'd like him to explain why if he thought he couldn't change his vote he threw it on someone without any information.

Also, of course
Vote to Lynch: TotallyNotSuspicious

As of his recent actions I'm significantly more suspicious of TNS. That's about all I have time to say right now. I'll do a more in-depth post when I have more time left.

More time left? More time. Brain doesn't want to function when I'm hungry.

Really Arc? You're thinking that Nihil was most likely a vigilante kill too? I have to strongly disagree with you and Ghosty on this one. The mafia wants to make sure their kill succeeds, and any of the three of us were possible protection targets for the doctor (which we all are assuming exists simply because it is a common role). So rather than roll the dice on getting a kill through, they went for a different town player. Nihil hadn't said much, but it had been commented that he was busy in real life and could make strong logical contributions when able to participate more, so I find him to be a perfectly valid target for a sure kill. A vigilante had way more reasons to target PurpleRam, but didn't. Actually that is the only way her statement of expecting to be the target makes sense, if it was the vigilante she was expecting to be killed by. Which she could only expect if she knows the kill was in fact a vigilante kill. But that's not something she would just blurt out, is it?....

It is way too quiet in here! Start making noise Cages!

I am more of GM's position. It seems like argument for a vig kill on Nihil seems a bit premature. If they have one kill a game why waste it on a one time shot to kill someone with this many mafia still in the game. I think that the vig would have a greater chance of surviving the night and possibly keeping their heads down until a more juicy target or at least a more confident target came about post lynch.

I want an explanation badly from both PR and TNS. But more so from TNS.

I was expecting to be killed. We don't know if there is a vigilante in the game. I wasn't, so either the mafia doesn't care enough to kill me, or they're hoping the town will just lynch me and then they can kill someone else.

Yeah I do agree with GM as well, it would seem weird that the vigilante would just go and target nihil...that just seems odd to me that they would do a once per game thing to get rid of a person that did not post much. His death in general just seems super odd even if the mafia or vigilante did kill him.

Currently my thoughts on the matter would lean toward mafia kill though it may be weird. Though I'm a bit stumped on which it would be because neither seem likely to want to chose a person that hasn't said much, I mean the mafia could infer he was the doctor possibly... Yet, again how could they, unless they decide it was a roll of the dice.

Currently I am really wanting to hear a defense from TNS, and a bit more from PR, yet being this late I can't think of any good questions off top of my head.

Also I found this too amusing not to share:

All of your guy's arguements except for gm hinge on the vig being a one shot power, which is not something ive seen much on an actual night vig very often.

But i digress, even if nihil was definitivly a mafia target, that gives us basically 0 information, so i was outlining the scenarios that t was possible it was a vig kill hopefully to get some information out of the situation.  

Anyway currently the post i want to see most is one from ram telling us her opionions on all the players and tns explaning his scum like posts right now.

Ghosty and GM have been asking questions and I've just been pointing fingers. I know it looks scummy, but I assure you I'm not. The way KSS did things made him stand out to me. Now I see TNS as the most suspicious, as do the rest of you.

RedPanda is kinda just going along with things. Seems pretty town to me. There's a small chance he could be scum trying to hide, but for now I think he's town.

Arc, you've been doing about the same thing GM and Ghosty have. You did that last game to. Seems like a town move.

Like9Orphans, you also haven't done much to be seen as scum.

There are a few that haven't posted much so I don't really have a lot to go on there. Those are my feelings and based on his recent actions,

Vote to lynch: TotallyNotSuspicious.

I'll rescind my vote if I hear a good explanation.

I don't know Alkeriece in real life. Could someone who does remind him that this exists? I sent Raptor-Senpai another reminder recently.

TNS may need a reminder too since he's on the hot seat right now, but at least he has posted in day two.

Green Machine wrote:I don't know Alkeriece in real life. Could someone who does remind him that this exists? I sent Raptor-Senpai another reminder recently.

I told him Friday, and he gave me the old "Oh I forgot again" excuse. If he doesn't start posting soon I will go find someone to replace him.

Oh my.

Well, here we have a dilemma.

I would dearly love to give an explanation as to why I voted almost immediately despite being under the impression that I wouldn't be able to change it.

And an explanation as to why I never sought outside information as to whether that was accurate, despite a re-read of the thread showing several people doing just that.

Unfortunately my entire reason boils down to: "lol first game"

Which is what I imagine a mafia player would say to cover himself here.

The only real thing to bring to my defense is that my original vote appears to qualify as scummy and bringing it to attention would seem to be a bad move for mafia.


Welp, the damage is done, and the blood of an innocent at least partially on my hands. Do what you must.

I know we're all pretty suspicious of TNS at this point, and justifiably so, but I would like to take a moment to advocate for some caution. We were all pretty suspicious of Kevin yesterday too, and we know how that turned out. I feel it's important we take things slowly, which is the reason I have still yet to place my vote on TNS. There are ten people still alive and only three of them are scum, which means there's a less than 1/3 chance of any given person being someone we actually want to lynch.

TNS has given his defense (or "defense"), and PurpleRam has as well. At this point, those two seem to be the scummiest people around town, I'm not content to just lynch up one or the other without considering things for as long as we can. As far as I'm concerned, we should be using every bit of time we get each day phase. Doing so not only means more posts to analyze and look back on, but also means that the Mafia have to spend more time standing in the sun with the rest of us and have more time to slip up and make some kind of mistake.

Now, I feel like a lot of the judgements and reads we've seen tossed around so far have relied primarily on judging activity levels and how people vote for or accuse one another. Admittedly, that's often all you have to work with. But because of that, all of the attention and scrutiny has been focused on the people that either aren't active or have been deemed to be acting scummy (something some players are a natural at doing, even when they don't mean to, as we saw with Kevin). But too often have I seen games where the scum manages to safely coast their way to an easy victory because they had someone doing an expert job of pretending to be an active, inquisitive player who led the town... Except in truth, they were really misleading the town the whole way.

There are three people who could be said to be leading the town right now, three people who in my opinion have gone almost completely unscrutinized so far. They are Arc, Green Machine, and myself. I'm not saying one of us is definitely a traitor, but we might only have one more mislynch allowed before it becomes impossible to win, and I don't think that anybody can be allowed the free pass we three have received so far. I would like everybody to put on their thinking caps, look back over our posts, and decide which among us three they think would be most likely to be a traitor to the town. Please refer to specific posts that are the source of your answer, if possible.

Oh, and on an unrelated note, scum or not, that's a beautiful Cage pic TNS just dropped.

TotallyNotSuspicious definitely seems to be one of the most scummy right now especially with his lackluster defense of himself, but given Ghosty pointing out that town leaders would make a good hiding place for mafia I'm a little hesitant to hop on the bandwagon just yet.

I still don't think Ram is mafia since everything they have done so far has been normal for them.

GreenMachine has been a bit aggressive in his pursuit, which could be a sign of scum hiding their tracks, he also could just be an aggressive townie. So unless he does something that makes him actually seem scummy I'm not going to point any fingers at him.

Arc has been one of the first people on the bandwagon each time and the main person to argue that KSS was scum, in fact the first person. Arc seems to be the most likely candidate for scum but without more evidence I not confident in voting to him just yet.

Ghosty hasn't done anything really scummy just been really active and trying to engage with people so probably town or a mafia that is really good at pretending to be town.

RedBeard, Otaku, and L9O I don't have much of an opinion on since nothing particularly townie has come through their posts so could be, could not be hard to say.

And that is literally all I've got so far. Nothing really spectacular or revealing.

I just want to say a thing.

I have seen this, but as one of the people ghosty mentioned, I'd rather not say too much until the not-us people have said their piece, and then I'll respond to it. Hopefully this turns up leads and doesn't cost the town too much time.

I too am waiting to hear answers from others before answering Ghosty's question. We need to hear more from everyone else in general; this quietness is really bad for us. So when you post, say everything that's on your mind, including placing a vote if you feel you have a good reason to. That is information we desperately need.

That makes quite a bit of sense and I was starting to think the same as you Ghostly about the possibility of a person getting to be the townie lead but turn out to be mafia.

Right now I'm just not comfortable with picking TNS or PR right away because of what happened to KSS. When voting I was hesitant at voting for KSS, mainly because something felt off for me. It felt that he was an aggressive townie for some reason in my mind and the same as PR. TNS I have been suspicious about, but after looking back, he hasn't posted much and since he didn't know the rules with voting. Then that actually may be truth of a townie that doesn't quite know the rules, though it could be a good mafia trick...I really don't know.

Though, I will admit that between the 3 of the people that are the town leads/most posting, I believe I would have to pick Arc. Only because of going back reading all of the posts, I feel that GM is trying to get answers, and is promoting people to post before the night comes. This would be odd for a mafia person to do, well at least in my head it seems weird that a mafia would have people post more and try to defend themselves... *shrug*

Now for Ghostly, you are the one whom posted this question...that does seem weird for you to prompt this question if you were mafia...or it is a REALLY good cover-up. Though you do have a lot of good posts that make people think and motivate the town to figure out decisions, this post was a good example of that.

Now for the person I would chose, the reason I would say Arc is due to him pointing fingers at different people, he was the first to vote for KSS for his silly response to the question. He pursued KSS more and then PR as they argued back and forth accusing scummy posts.

Though I will admit this was my only reason, I could see where any one of you three are scum or maybe even two of you being scum and rolling us townies. Though that's unlikely but possible could happen. What would be a shocker is all three, but again highly unlikely. I just not able to see what defines as a scummy post right now and will admit since last game I played for like 1 round haha, and still new to things.

So I mainly am wanting to hear the responses from everyone including the three mentioned.

Hmmm. I guess I should respond as well.

So of the people I would be suspicious of, it'd be Arc or PurpleRam. It's mostly based on the fact that they were the ones mostly going after KSS, who we now know was town.

That said, the three of them were the most active players at the time so that could have been the result of a lack of evidence for anyone else forming the narrative.

Of the two I'd say Arc was more suspicious since he was the driving force of the conversation, but the same could have been said of KSS when he got lynched.

So in conclusion......don't make hasty conclusions?


Have another Cage gif while I'm at it.

Ghosty, I had considered the three of you, you being you, Arc, and GM, as mafia. Unless one of you is really good at hiding it, I don't think you are. Still pretty new to all this, so I'm really unsure, but I am seeing what others are saying about Arc.

I need to think some more and review posts.

Vote to lynch: nobody.

I can say that I could see some scum in all 3.

First Arc as  we have all articulated has been relatively aggressive with the lynch button. This could prove very useful in the case of not doubting ourselves and proceeding with a course of action that brings a scummy looking player to light as well as putting pressure on potential scum to see if they crack under the pressure of accusation. Or it can really bite us in the butt and put us in a big jam such as was demonstrated with KSS. It can cause us to make hasty decisions and really make the town a dysfunctional unit. I think that this should provoke us all to carefully decide before pressing the lynch button at all as everything posted is information. He was the first to press any lynching buttons and as was articulated in the first game Mafia don't make the first lynch so as to get a feel for where the town wants to take its lynch and go with that flow, which would provide an excellent cover for mafia providing the first lynch of the game as it is the opposite of what the mafia would do, right?

As for GM he as well been laying down the pressure for both bandwagons. He was the second to cast a vote to lynch (behind arc) and then pretty well took a back seat. He even put forward a popcorn meme implying that He was here for a show (as well as info) but also taking a back seat to the conversation in front of him. He answered questions that were proposed to him and such and also prosed a question of his own. He was the 5th to vote for the innocent known as Mr. Safe Spacey behind TNS, Arc, Nihil, and Purple Ram. This kind of play could also be seen as scum watching mob mentality overtake an inexperienced town and as Ghosty said putting on a leadership front and feeding misdirection. That of course could simply be that he was waiting for the info to be put forward. He also was one of the first to throw down a vote on a grantedly very suspicious TNS My point is that GM has also exhibited similar behavior as Arc and could be seen as slightly scummy.

Now for Ghosty. I believe he has acted the least scummy of the 3 as most of everyone else does. He has articulated a good amount of information forward, provoked questions to try and further discussion and never voted to lynch anyone pushing to try and play a conservative gamestyle in which thinking wins the day instead of brash decisions. He wants us to utilize our time to provide information that will help the town in the end and  put the mafia to light. However, I have never played a game with him, never seen his playstyle, and never seen him interact on a scum or townie scale. I do know that he is the one that invited me to the game and therefore has already taken on an experienced role for this. And with it I makes me suspicious of the timing if his question. This could be a good play by the mafia to try and get the inexperienced town to play against townie leaders. I do not believe that there is anyway that all 3 of them have the name scum behind their card, but I could believe one. I was thrown off by fact that Ghosty was the first one to articulate a big possibility of a vigalante killing Nihil in detail. Possibility of mafia trying to put bugs in our ear to misguide us. Also assuming the possibility that he might be trying to cover for TNS while keeping his distance from him by his interrogation and then misguiding us to one of the prolific posters to be lynched before we turn to TNS for the lynching. I will point out that he did not vote for TNS despite proposing that large amount of pressure that he did in his question.  

Now all of this is a big conspiracy theory. But we were asked to scrutinize each of them and i think conspiricy theories are right down the alley for our nicholas cage match. As far as conspiracy theories go this is a pretty big leap it could be a whole lot simpler and we are not asking the right questions of the ones we are suspicious of.  As my battery runs dry and my thumbs start to swell I will rest way tonight knowing that I feel more in character as Nicholas cage than any other theater project I have ever been a part of. This is real.